The Jesus Papers, the Book of Judas, Jesus Walking on Ice...

on Apr 10, 2006

The truth is almost none of the bibles where written by the people whose names they bare, for instance the four gospels in the bibe where not allwritten at the same time three of which were written after the death of all the apostles, KFC and SA you seem to little or no understanding of the history behind christanity, nor do you seem interested in learning. The bible is not the exhustive and only teaching of the Christian church, nor is it the only document by which theology is taught to most Teachers of the christian faith. There has never been any hint that Judas wrote his Gospel, what is known that it has long since been proved to be authentic, not only this the fact is that as you read throug the four gospels you will clearly see if you bother to look, that each moves more towards the story we all know, but do not start at this point, interesting as you move through the Gospels from the first Gospel to the Last gospel to be written there is a period of time elapsed of som 100 odd years, which tells me that either John was getting very long in the tooth or it was wriiten long after his death, this alone allows for descripencies in the facts, not to mention the transalations from Hebrew to Greek, then to english. I could go on but wom't, the reality is that if you wish to investigate the truth lets look at the church that holds the longest unbroken history with christ, that church being the coptics, whom I might add have never taught the story that we are given about the events that surround the crusfixation, in fact they see Judas as the closest of Jesus's confidants, and go on to teach that Judas did in fact die, when he fell from a cliff.

Jesus Taught us many things, not just from teachings from the old testments, but his words, those of his desciples, all of which have appeared in the bible and many other Gospels.

32

Ayla00

on Apr 10, 2006

I always find it amazing that all Catholics are concerned with defending anything and everything Catholic. Its always the same discussion. Being Athiest and very comfortably so, I don't feel the need to defend myself or my beliefs (or lack there of) to anyone. And if anyone should have to defend themselves you would think it would be someone with no beliefs.. So why then does a 2000 year old religion feel so threatened. I really don't want to get anyone mad by this statement, but I've been asking this question for a long time and still haven't gotten an answer...

33

foreverserenity

on Apr 10, 2006

So why then does a 2000 year old religion feel so threatened.

I guess it's because it seems that all that Christians have learned and that which we believe in seems to be untrue? Perhaps, for some it is that way, I'm only guessing here.

For me it makes no difference what they found, it does not shake my faith, or make it less real.

It seems to be to be just a lot of noise to bring sensationalism to the forefront of Christianity. I think many Christians are forgetting that there will be moments like this, that questions our faith and what we believe and know to be true and that we should not let moments like this get to us.

34

messybuu

on Apr 10, 2006

I always find it amazing that all Catholics are concerned with defending anything and everything Catholic. Its always the same discussion. Being Athiest and very comfortably so, I don't feel the need to defend myself or my beliefs (or lack there of) to anyone. And if anyone should have to defend themselves you would think it would be someone with no beliefs.. So why then does a 2000 year old religion feel so threatened. I really don't want to get anyone mad by this statement, but I've been asking this question for a long time and still haven't gotten an answer...

One might ask evolutionists the same thing. After all, look how they act over people denying it! Surely that means it's WRONG, right? After all, one can't defend themselves, because defending one's beliefs from wrong beliefs means that their beliefs are wrong, right?

35

messybuu

on Apr 10, 2006

Double post

36

messybuu

on Apr 10, 2006

The truth is almost none of the bibles where written by the people whose names they bare, for instance the four gospels in the bibe where not allwritten at the same time three of which were written after the death of all the apostles, KFC and SA you seem to little or no understanding of the history behind christanity, nor do you seem interested in learning.

Since you seem to be a historian, tell me exactly when the four gospels were written, all right? Please cite your references too.

I'll grant you that it's not 100% that they were written by John, Mark, Matthew, and Luke, but history isn't as certain as you might think it is. The truth is that if you judge Christian history by the same standard as you judge the rest of history, then there's no reason not to believe that it was written by the people one says to. But people never want to use the same standards to study Christian history that they do with the rest of history.

I could go on but wom't, the reality is that if you wish to investigate the truth lets look at the church that holds the longest unbroken history with christ, that church being the coptics, whom I might add have never taught the story that we are given about the events that surround the crusfixation, in fact they see Judas as the closest of Jesus's confidants, and go on to teach that Judas did in fact die, when he fell from a cliff.

How funny. Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians also claim to have a tradition that has not evolved with time.

37

messybuu

on Apr 10, 2006

The truth is almost none of the bibles where written by the people whose names they bare, for instance the four gospels in the bibe where not allwritten at the same time three of which were written after the death of all the apostles, KFC and SA you seem to little or no understanding of the history behind christanity, nor do you seem interested in learning.

Since you seem to be a historian, tell me exactly when the four gospels were written, all right? Please cite your references too.

I'll grant you that it's not 100% that they were written by John, Mark, Matthew, and Luke, but history isn't as certain as you might think it is. The truth is that if you judge Christian history by the same standard as you judge the rest of history, then there's no reason not to believe that it was written by the people one says to. But people never want to use the same standards to study Christian history that they do with the rest of history.

I could go on but wom't, the reality is that if you wish to investigate the truth lets look at the church that holds the longest unbroken history with christ, that church being the coptics, whom I might add have never taught the story that we are given about the events that surround the crusfixation, in fact they see Judas as the closest of Jesus's confidants, and go on to teach that Judas did in fact die, when he fell from a cliff.

How funny. Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians also claim to have a tradition that has not evolved with time.

38

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Apr 10, 2006

I can't believe I'm saying this....but I like you Satan's advocate!!! You are right on!! I'm starting to realize why you have the name you have....clever!!

KFC and SA you seem to little or no understanding of the history behind christanity, nor do you seem interested in learning

Are you kidding? What are you basing this on? If you knew me you'd never have uttered this statement. I've been studying Christianity as well as other religions for well over 30 years now. Not lightly I might add. I have enough books to fill a small library.

as you move through the Gospels from the first Gospel to the Last gospel to be written there is a period of time elapsed of som 100 odd years, which tells me that either John was getting very long in the tooth or it was wriiten long after his death,

It's a pretty well known established fact that John wrote his gospel in the 90's about 30 years after the other gospels. John also was very much the youngest some thinking he was but a teen during Jesus' time. So if he was a teenager in the 30's how old do you calculate he would be in the 90's?

It's also very clear that not only did he write the gospel of John but he wrote 1,2,3 John and Revelation as well.

So why then does a 2000 year old religion feel so threatened.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I don't feel that Christianity is threatened. I believe things are going exactly as planned.

Christ said himself...."When I come back will I even find faith on the earth?"

Jesus Taught us many things, not just from teachings from the old testments, but his words, those of his desciples, all of which have appeared in the bible and many other Gospels

sorry but you are listening to the wrong "Jesus." He's the one that comes disguised. "The sheep can hear my voice" says Jesus. They will not follow the one that is dressed like a sheep but in all reality comes to deceive and destroy.

39

tcangiano

on Apr 11, 2006

I agree with KFC (Kickin For Christ) .
I am a spirit-filled Christian.And that whole thing about this,that,and the other thing is completely wrong.
Jesus died for our sins.So,we may have eternal life.
I agree with it's not right to push people towards Christ.But,to tell them of his love for them.And to just pray and leave them in God's hands.
I ran away from God .And actually told God .I did not want anything to do with him or being saved.
Well,long story short.I went through a lot of pain,abuse,heartache.And the one person that never gave up on me.Was God.Despite what I did or what I said.He was always there for me.

40

JavaScout

on Apr 11, 2006

Somone asked for references that the gospels of mathew, mark, luke and john where not written by the disciple named

Try this site
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/intro.html

41

zergimmi

on Apr 11, 2006

SA , I will reply, as for history I judge all history the same way, I am always prepared to learn, that what makes history so interesting, if find it the same as most things some facts are proved to be correct some not correct. I hope this is answering what you were saying, as for the Gospels.

I would apply this to all I have learnt during time relative to the christian church, I am not trying to shitcan peoples beliefs, if I have offended I am sorry.

As for RCs and Other Orthodox churches, all claim to have traditional links to JC, as all do have, never discounted this, however the Coptics tend to embrace a lot more of the litature available than the other two, being a RC does not conflict in with me finding research of areas outside of the bible as wrong, nor does it seem to be aproblems for many others in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church, It is rare that a student of theology would spend their entire life "just"studying one book.

KFC, we will never agree, as I do not subscribe to your devoted position in relation to the Bible as being exhaustive work of God, and all other books, gospels and other writings to be some sought of Devil conspiricy or that of some for of anti christ. We all have our beliefs, and hopefully we will all get there in the end.

Just a thought, one day we will all find out sadly no matter which one of us gets there next we will never get the opportunity to come back and say I told yo so, I suppose this is why we call this a Faith, but trying to learn more about one's faith and trying to understand, is not in my mind going to detract from my faith.

Love the reference page JC.

42

zergimmi

on Apr 11, 2006

Chakgogka, I should have done this days ago, ND THnka for the reminder, especially when they were my own words of wisdom. Lesson well learnt, just because I have had a bad day/week, should take a deep breath and think before I leap in with both feet in my mouth.

43

zergimmi

on Apr 11, 2006

Just fixing the spelling sorry for the repeat.

Chakgogka, I should have done this days ago, and thankyou for the reminder, especially when they were my own words of wisdom. Lesson well learnt, just because I have had a bad day/week, should take a deep breath and think before I leap in with both feet in my mouth.

I have since had an opportunity to watch the Judas Gospels, and I would say that as usual, NetGeo has done a brilliant job.

44

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Apr 11, 2006

check this out Link

Matthew was written by Matthew and especially to the Jews in an answer to the question "Was Jesus the Messiah?"

Mark was written by Mark thru the eyes of Peter. They were companions in the early church. This book was written particularly for a Roman audience.

Luke was written by Luke, a companion of Paul. His writing was slanted towards the gentiles.

John was written by the Apostle John as an eyewittness. He focused more on the deity of Christ where the others focused more on the works of Christ.

45

zergimmi

on Apr 12, 2006

Great KFC, but as I said I disagree with yours and the concept of Protestantism, I respect yours and the views, but do not subscribe to them, The site does give me a better understanding of the protestant view, and I will read on as I have an enquiring mind, however I have heard much of this before from friends who mister in many protestant churches, and as I do with them I respectfully disagree.

While this person who has spent a lot of time in study and has a strong belief in what he says, He is but one theological voice, and there are many who would support his view, and many more who would disagree with him. I do not count myself as anywhere near a theologian, far from it, but I still have the greatest respect for the way the CC and other orthodox religions formulate their religious theory and teachings.

As for the accusation of false religions, I again have difficulty in the concept of exclusion of prophets who may have been sent after Jesus Christ rose to the heavens. After all the bible was written long before Mohammed received his calling, so why should his reformist teachings be less relevant than say those of Martin Luther, having said this I do not agree with their representation of Christ,

I do not expect you to change you views or your beliefs, just because I think they are wrong or I disagree with them, nor do I have less respect for your position because I do not agree, but I do reserve the right to accept the wisdom of others who in my opinion may have a little more theological experience than the people at the above link, people who have guided me through many difficult parts and many good parts of my life.