Let me see your Proof of Residency before I help you, Amigo.

Published on March 27, 2006 By InBloom In Current Events

I am somewhat divided about this immigration reform. I understand the government's economic concerns about illegal immigrants and their concern for national security. I do believe that immigrants who want to live here should do what they need to do to stay here legally. But I also believe that they come up here for opportunity and a better life, just like many of our ancestors did...and they work their asses off here in laborious jobs that many Americans turn their noses up to (but I'm not going farther...that is another stance and not the point of this article).

Actually, my main beef with this immigration reform deals with them dragging the church into this. The following is part of an article the Christian Science monitor published (by Daniel B. Wood)

***"America's faith communities are keeping careful watch as Congress wrangles over border security - a process expected to yield the most dramatic changes in immigration policy since the 1980s - and many religious leaders are not liking what they see so far.

Increasingly, they are making their presence felt on Capitol Hill, where the Senate is now drafting its version of immigration reform. In their own churches, synagogues, and mosques, many leaders are striking a defiant pose toward an immigration bill the US House has already approved.

At stake is the moral high ground on immigration. The religious leaders see new border-tightening moves as intruding on their obligation to care for strangers - no questions asked. Those who argue the other side, that immigration must be curtailed and the border secured, also couch their position in moral terms, saying it is unprincipled to aid and abet those who have entered the US illegally.

A key sticking point: part of the House measure that would force any individual, including church workers, to see documentation before giving help to immigrants, or risk imprisonment.

"It is none of the government's business who and how religious people serve," says Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy, president of Interfaith Alliance, which represents 70 faith traditions. "Would the US Congress have told the Good Samaritan not to help a stranger in the ditch?"***

hmmm....I thought Church was supposed to be separated from state...or am I missing something here.

Comments (Page 2)

bakerstreet

on Mar 27, 2006

Listen, people are in jail right now for offering food and shelter to known fugitives. You don't harbor someone trying to avoid law enforcement, or you make yourself party to their crime. It's crap that they can get over the border and then use churches as their safehouses. Why should we overlook it for this crime?

If Mexico was some scary totalitarian regime that refuse to let people leave, it might be different. These people aren't seeking asylum, nor do they need sanctuary. Lots of people migrate legally to the US every year, and there's no reason why we should degrade what they do by catering to those who won't take the time and effort.

We already pay taxes to make up for the billions that they don't. The money we put in the collection plate shouldn't be used to abet criminal acts.

InBloom

on Mar 27, 2006

I'm not ignorant. I know that our country spends money on non U.S citizens. I know that that it is a crime for them to be here illegally. I honestly do wish they would take the steps needed to become legal. This reform is supposedly going to help us and help them...I am bothered, though, by the fact that people who just want to lend a helping hand to these less fortunate people risk being prosecuted.

In general, (I know there are exceptions, so I don't need to be cleared up on that) most illegal aliens are NOT terrorists, rapists, murderers, etc.; they come here to work...they come From a place that does not have the opportunities they seek, and come To a place where they know they will be hired to work jobs no one else wants. I hate that they are being villified as anti- American good for nothings.

I don't exactly know the reasons why many don't become legal. Maybe it's not wanting to pay taxes? Maybe it's intimidation? Mabe it's the language factor? I wish this would be researched more. All I know is, I hope this reform not only protects us, but encourages them to get citizenship. Then maybe they'll be treated just like everyone else instead of being looked down upon.

DJBandit

on Mar 29, 2006

It's OK to lend a helping hand to those in need, but you don't do it by hiding and feeding criminals. No matter how you look at it, they are criminals, they entered the US illegaly and that makes them criminals. The problem is the word criminal is considered a description of a very horrible person, a murderer, a rapist or drug dealers, when in reality it's who ever breaks a law. Someone who speeds over the speed limit is a criminal, throughing garbage on the ground makes you a criminal, not curbing your dog makes you a criminal, it just all depends on how big of a crime it really is and how the news potrays it.

If churches wanna help those in need, they need to go to Mexico and help them there, they need to convince the Mexican Gov't to better their situation. That's how you help those in need. You don't fix a problem by helping those affected, you fix the problem by fixing the source of it.

You don't stop Mexicans from crossing the border illegaly by eliminating the jobs they seek, buy making stronger laws, more border patrol or better equipment, you do it be helping them in their own country. Everyday I'm starting to believe that the money used in the war in Iraq could be better spent helping Mexico better itself. Iraq may be a benefit someday but Mexico can be a benefit now.

In general, (I know there are exceptions, so I don't need to be cleared up on that) most illegal aliens are NOT terrorists, rapists, murderers, etc.; they come here to work...they come From a place that does not have the opportunities they seek, and come To a place where they know they will be hired to work jobs no one else wants. I hate that they are being villified as anti- American good for nothings.

This was my point above. We hear the word criminal and we automatically think of murderers, rapist, terrorist, etc. But we forget that those with speeding tickets, j-walking, not curbing their dogs are also criminals, just not of the same level.

I don't exactly know the reasons why many don't become legal. Maybe it's not wanting to pay taxes? Maybe it's intimidation? Mabe it's the language factor? I wish this would be researched more. All I know is, I hope this reform not only protects us, but encourages them to get citizenship. Then maybe they'll be treated just like everyone else instead of being looked down upon.

No one really knows, still they only make it worse for themselves for not doing so. I don't agree with the idea of making it easier for those who are already here illegaly to become citizens or have temporary passes to stay while those going thru the legal process have to wait and probably be refused. It's just not fair to punish the legal ones and reward the illegal ones.

I think what needs to be done is to rework the process to allow them to come legally much easier and to also help their country so that they don't have to come here in search of money. It is unfair to me and everyone else to have to pay taxes, something they don't, to support them here illegaly in places like hospitals.

zergimmi

on Apr 07, 2006

In short what would Jesus say if he were on this forum, discussing this issue.

Church and State should be seperate, sure, however, people in need are people in need, who is to say why these people are crossing the border with out the proper channels being observed, but my guess is they are looking for a better life, they may break the laws of the US, but they are far from criminals. To treat these people as if they are is showing just how low we value the lives of others, who in most cases are innocent victims of a country which has been poorly managed and are searching for a better life in a country they percieve to have better values. Are they in for a shock. I'm not here to judge anyone, but lets be fair and look at this situation through the eyes of those crossing the border, not from the comfort of our homes, where we can comfortably pass judgement.

Having said this I should add that in most cases about the only people in Mexico and many other countries less well off than those in which we live, helping these people are people from the church, many are dying for their efforts, just look at El Salvador, and what has happened there in the past as an example. The church is not out to change the laws of the government , nor would they know who are illegal and those that are bona fide citizens, they are just there to help all no matter where they are situated.

Like I said it would interesting to hear what Jesus would say if he were to be in this forum.

DJBandit

on Apr 07, 2006

#19 by zergimmi
Friday, April 07, 2006

I understand where you are coming from but you must understand that in a country with man made laws, religious ideals can not be above the laws. That is the reason of separation of church and state.

I understand that these churches are only doing what they believe is right according to their beliefs, that however does not negate the fact that the illegals they help are criminals.

definition of crime: a violation of a local, state, or federal law.

Definition of criminal: someone who has committed (or been legally convicted of) a crime

No matter how you put it a law is a law and a criminal is a criminal. Do you consider a person speeding a criminal if they were running 80 mph in a 70 mph zone? The impact of an accident would be similar on either speeds but they would still get pulled over and given a ticket for breaking the law anyways.

Should we allow people from China, Africa, Central America, South America, The Middle East, Cuba, Domincan Republic and/or any other poor country enter the US with seeing them as criminals as well? They too have the right to seek a better life in a country that claims to offer just that. They do not have the conviniece of a border to the side of the US and we turn them right back when caught enetering illegaly, usually by boat. How come no one is fighting for their right to the great American Dream?

If we were to guide ourselves by our moral values instead of our laws and allow these illegal immigrants from Mexico to stay and ignore the law, should we not also try to find ways to help those in other countries to make their way to the US as well? Should we take cruise liners, cargo ships, tankers, any kind of ship or plane and send them to these poor countries and bring them to the US so that they too can enjoy the American Dream that these Mexicans are searching for as well?

I find it sad that, even though these churches are doing a nice thing by helping those in need, they are helping the criminals within the US yet those in Mexico are not being helped by them as well. f these churches trully feel these people need help they should not treat the symptoms, they should treat the cause of these symptoms.

Some say that we should not stick our noses in other countries businesses. Some say being the most powerful country in the world today it is our responsability to help those in need. If we help, we are only interested, if we don't we are cruel. There is just no winning.

This reminds me of the movie HERO with Jet Lee. They wanted to assassinate the king because he was invading all of those countries and killing a lot of people. But the king believes that he did what he did because he felt it was the only way to save everyone. That uniting all of them under one language, under one flag, under one race would make them stronger and give them all a better life. I may not be expressing it the same way he did, but even I was touched by his reason for doing what he was doing. Even I believed in him.

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